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dancermom128

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Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf
If we let our chuildren stop all activities they hate, they would lie around all day on their iPhone and snapchat. If that's how we are going to parent, then just give them a credit-card and tell them to have a great life[/QUOTE

Huh my kids also are lucky enough to have enough things they love than to have to fill time with things they hate. Sure there are things they like better than others but needing to do things they hate so they don't sit around on their phones all day? Not necessary.
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cynmckee

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancermom128
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf
If we let our chuildren stop all activities they hate, they would lie around all day on their iPhone and snapchat. If that's how we are going to parent, then just give them a credit-card and tell them to have a great life[/QUOTE Huh my kids also are lucky enough to have enough things they love than to have to fill time with things they hate. Sure there are things they like better than others but needing to do things they hate so they don't sit around on their phones all day? Not necessary.


I kind of get what Galdolf is saying though.  The activities that end up being really worthwhile are almost never always fun.  There have been times when dance has been super hard, super demoralizing for my kid.  I'm not sure she would have quit if I had let her but that is her personality....she is a fighter. (Sometimes that is a good quality, sometimes it can almost kill her.)  But honestly, I think that quality is kind of rare in kids.  Lots of kids will always choose to walk away from a fight.  While that can save a lot of pain it also makes you afraid to push through difficult experiences in your life.  The trick as parents is to know our own kids well enough to know when to say "Buck up buttercup. Push through and try harder" vs. "Dude this is just not worth it."  I guess the question would be for me, how would she feel if she broke through the wall and became good at it.  Does she want to leave because it is hard or because she truly hates tap?
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #28 
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Originally Posted by cynmckee


I kind of get what Galdolf is saying though.  The activities that end up being really worthwhile are almost never always fun.  There have been times when dance has been super hard, super demoralizing for my kid.  I'm not sure she would have quit if I had let her but that is her personality....she is a fighter. (Sometimes that is a good quality, sometimes it can almost kill her.)  But honestly, I think that quality is kind of rare in kids.  Lots of kids will always choose to walk away from a fight.  While that can save a lot of pain it also makes you afraid to push through hard times in your life.  The trick as parents is to know our own kids well enough to know when to say "Buck up buttercup" vs. "Dude this is just not worth it."


If we were talking something other than tap class for a 14 yo who has specifically stated she "hates" tap and has no long term goals that involve tap I'd be on board too.  I think sometimes gandalf goes a little deeper than is necessary in a particular conversation.  The general message may have merit, but specifically applied to the scenario outlined by the OP?  Maybe not so much.
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Ann121

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Reply with quote  #29 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf
If we let our chuildren stop all activities they hate, they would lie around all day on their iPhone and snapchat. If that's how we are going to parent, then just give them a credit-card and tell them to have a great life


If we force our children to engage in activities they hate, they're going to resent us.
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cynmckee

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Originally Posted by heidi459


If we were talking something other than tap class for a 14 yo who has specifically stated she "hates" tap and has no long term goals that involve tap I'd be on board too.  I think sometimes gandalf goes a little deeper than is necessary in a particular conversation.  The general message may have merit, but specifically applied to the scenario outlined by the OP?  Maybe not so much.


I get it.  She will 99% never use tap but the underlying lesson of pushing through a time where you just can't get something and coming out on the other end knowing you have overcome is a powerful lesson that can be used throughout the rest of your life. 

I've seen this lesson in tap with my own girl.  During a parent watch day a couple of years ago in tap I was nudged by a parent who pointed out my own kid in the corner.  All eyes were on her even though she noticed none of us.  The reason?  The pure hatred and utter concentration on her face.  She looked like if you were to walk within 5 feet of her, she would 'cut you.'  But all of that determination was being directed into the step she just couldn't get.  It was scary and hilarious all the same time. She fought through that, got it and came out better on the backend.  She had won.  Will my child use tap in her future...I would say almost assuredly no. 
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cynmckee

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann121
If we force our children to engage in activities they hate, they're going to resent us.


Responding to this statement alone.

No they won't.  I forced my kid to do all kinds of stuff.  I forced her to do her first theater audition when she was something like 8.  She cried.  Everyone hated me.  She got a great part and ended up loving it more then anything else.  Best memories she has ever had.  I forced her to take saxophone instead of trumpet because we had a sax in the basement.  She didn't resent me.  Hell I force her to use that damn acne medicine and while she sighs, she knows it will make her skin better.  There isn't one parent alive that doesn't force their kid to do all kinds of things starting from the day they were born.  It's called parenting.
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee


I get it.  She will 99% never use tap but the underlying lesson of pushing through a time where you just can't get something and coming out on the other end knowing you have overcome is a powerful lesson that can be used throughout the rest of your life. 

I've seen this lesson in tap with my own girl.  During a parent watch day a couple of years ago in tap I was nudged by a parent who pointed out my own kid in the corner.  All eyes were on her even though she noticed none of us.  The reason?  The pure hatred and utter concentration on her face.  She looked like if you were to walk within 5 feet of her, she would 'cut you.'  But all of that determination was being directed into the step she just couldn't get.  It was scary and hilarious all the same time. She fought through that, got it and came out better on the backend.  She had won.  Will my child use tap in her future...I would say almost assuredly no. 


IDK  Obviously to each their own but I just can't get past the fact that we're talking about "tap".  I can think of a number of other ways to teach that lesson to my child. In fact, I probably teach that lesson several times a year (maybe month) where school is concerned.  Daily chores.  Family responsibilities.  Social situations.  "I" just can't get behind forcing what is nothing more than an extracurricular activity to achieve a goal I can achieve in other more practical ways.


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cynmckee

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Originally Posted by heidi459


IDK  Obviously to each their own but I just can't get past the fact that we're talking about "tap".  I can think of a number of other ways to teach that lesson to my child. In fact, I probably teach that lesson several times a year (maybe month) where school is concerned.  Or daily chores.  Or social situations.  I just can't get behind "forcing" an extracurricular activity to achieve a goal I can achieve in other more practical ways.


I get that too.  I took tap as an adult.  I was so bad.  I remember how extremely mind-bending hard it was for me.  It was a true mind f'.  I worked and worked to get the simplest of steps and even then it wasn't consistent. It was worse then taking up piano as an adult. (I was on a kick back in the day...don't get me started on learning to weld.)  It just seems like this is an opportunity that seems to be presenting itself for the OP's dd.  Maybe they can find another opportunity...but here is one in their lap.
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Ann121

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee


Responding to this statement alone.

No they won't.  I forced my kid to do all kinds of stuff.  I forced her to do her first theater audition when she was something like 8.  She cried.  Everyone hated me.  She got a great part and ended up loving it more then anything else.  Best memories she has ever had.  I forced her to take saxophone instead of trumpet because we had a sax in the basement.  She didn't resent me.  Hell I force her to use that damn acne medicine and while she sighs, she knows it will make her skin better.  There isn't one parent alive that doesn't force their kid to do all kinds of things starting from the day they were born.  It's called parenting.


I'm talking about forcing your child to do extra curricular activities. Forcing your child to take medicine and forcing your crying 8 year old to audition for something is different. It worked out in your case, but it doesn't always. Also, encouraging your child to try something new isn't the same as making a child continue to do something they hate. Just a difference in opinion.
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #35 
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Originally Posted by cynmckee


I get that too.  I took tap as an adult.  I was so bad.  I remember how extremely mind-bending hard it was for me.  It was a true mind f'.  I worked and worked to get the simplest of steps and even then it wasn't consistent. It was worse then taking up piano as an adult. (I was on a kick back in the day...don't get me started on learning to weld.)  It just seems like this is an opportunity that seems to be presenting itself for the OP's dd.  Maybe they can find another opportunity...but here is one in their lap.


But you obviously wanted to do it.. wanted the personal challenge.  That's why you persisted.  You could've quit.  No one was insisting you do something you didn't want to do.  Therein lies the difference, I think.

I get your message.  I really do and I'm just as guilty of pushing my kids in many ways.  But I think this scenario is different.  Not apples to oranges, no. Maybe oranges to tangerines.  Encouraging a change of attitude that might allow them to see it as a challenge and possibly lead them to change their mind? Okay, sure.  Forcing them to do even though they hate it and don't want to?  I just can't see the point.
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cynmckee

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann121
I'm talking about forcing your child to do extra curricular activities. Forcing your child to take medicine and forcing your crying 8 year old to audition for something is different. It worked out in your case, but it doesn't always. Also, encouraging your child to try something new isn't the same as making a child continue to do something they hate. Just a difference in opinion.


Kids resent you for forcing them into something because the outcome is about you and not them.  If you force a kid to take dance because it fills some hole in your psyche because you never got to dance as a child...then look out.  Karma is gonna poo on your head.  Your kid is going to hate it and you.

Helping a kid push through a difficulty will not cause resentment.  If the focus is about the child and they know you are holding their feet to the fire because you believe they can push through to the other side and be better for it, there is not going to be resentment.  Again...if it is really about them and not you.
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee


Responding to this statement alone.

No they won't.  I forced my kid to do all kinds of stuff.  I forced her to do her first theater audition when she was something like 8.  She cried.  Everyone hated me.  She got a great part and ended up loving it more then anything else.  Best memories she has ever had.  I forced her to take saxophone instead of trumpet because we had a sax in the basement.  She didn't resent me.  Hell I force her to use that damn acne medicine and while she sighs, she knows it will make her skin better.  There isn't one parent alive that doesn't force their kid to do all kinds of things starting from the day they were born.  It's called parenting.


OMG ...THIS!!!  Of COURSE we force our kids to do things they "hate" because usually that "hatred" is actually fear, or lack of confidence, or something similar that it's important they learn to work through.  I would say that the problem with the current generation of kids is their parents let them off the hook too easily.  They have no concept of persevering.  Of "gutting it out".  Of "sucking it up".  Of figuring their way through something that is not easy for them.  

I'm not saying this to mean that your child HAS to stick it out in tap.  But take it as a learning opportunity to explain that "hate" should be reserved for things like terrorism and cruelty, not for a dance style that you don't like.  Suck it up to the end of the year and then bow out.  But don't "hate".  
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cynmckee

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi459


But you obviously wanted to do it.. wanted the personal challenge.  That's why you persisted.  You could've quit.  No one was insisting you do something you didn't want to do.  Therein lies the difference, I think.

I get your message.  I really do and I'm just as guilty of pushing my kids in many ways.  But I think this scenario is different.  Not apples to oranges, no. Maybe oranges to tangerines.


No, no.  Don't get me wrong....I quit.  I quit all of that.  Plus a couple of hot embers up my shorts while trying metal arts made sure I quit that too.  My point on that paragraph was tap (while I understand is not a favorite of most) has a special quality to it.  It is not about natural flexibility or even emotion.  It's almost overcoming your own mind.  I kind of think piano is like that too.  Getting past those barriers is especially frustrating yet can be especially rewarding.  I'm one of the ones that didn't push through.  My kid did.  She's a much better person than I am. [wink]
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Ann121

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Reply with quote  #39 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee


Kids resent you for forcing them into something because the outcome is about you and not them.  If you force a kid to take dance because it fills some hole in your psyche because you never got to dance as a child...then look out.  Karma is gonna poo on your head.  Your kid is going to hate it and you.

Helping a kid push through a difficulty will not cause resentment.  If the focus is about the child and they know you are holding their feet to the fire because you believe they can push through to the other side and be better for it, there is not going to be resentment.  Again...if it is really about them and not you.


That's a good point. Maybe I'm a just a softy, but I can't imagine forcing my crying child to do an extracurricular that she didn't want to do. Chances are, she was just scared or nervous to audition. Also though, I think a 14 year old should be able to have some say in the activities they want to do.
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momofdanceobsessed

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Reply with quote  #40 
Funny enough at the pool yesterday she is still weighing the pros and cons of taking. I am letting her battle this out for herself. Her decision! She sees the benefits of taking it to help her in other areas of dance that are her focus and that is where she keeps going back. I told her I think she will be just fine if she doesn't continue with tap.

And just to add to last posters comment that a 14 year old should have say...I am not forcing her to do anything in dance ! Never have! The choice is her own! She is the one conflicted. I just asked the question to gain some knowledge about how detrimental it would be in a college audition. That was a concern of hers.
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Ann121

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momofdanceobsessed
Funny enough at the pool yesterday she is still weighing the pros and cons of taking. I am letting her battle this out for herself. Her decision! She sees the benefits of taking it to help her in other areas of dance that are her focus and that is where she keeps going back. I told her I think she will be just fine if she doesn't continue with tap.

And just to add to last posters comment that a 14 year old should have say...I am not forcing her to do anything in dance ! Never have! The choice is her own! She is the one conflicted. I just asked the question to gain some knowledge about how detrimental it would be in a college audition. That was a concern of hers.


I know, I didn't mean to imply it that way. I was just speaking in a general sense.
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momofdanceobsessed

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann121


I know, I didn't mean to imply it that way. I was just speaking in a general sense.


Oh I didn't mean it defensively! I just wanted to be sure that people didnt think I was going to force her to tap☺
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Angel2228

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Reply with quote  #43 
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Originally Posted by kmpmom


OMG ...THIS!!!  Of COURSE we force our kids to do things they "hate" because usually that "hatred" is actually fear, or lack of confidence, or something similar that it's important they learn to work through.  I would say that the problem with the current generation of kids is their parents let them off the hook too easily.  They have no concept of persevering.  Of "gutting it out".  Of "sucking it up".  Of figuring their way through something that is not easy for them.  

I'm not saying this to mean that your child HAS to stick it out in tap.  But take it as a learning opportunity to explain that "hate" should be reserved for things like terrorism and cruelty, not for a dance style that you don't like.  Suck it up to the end of the year and then bow out.  But don't "hate".  

This is exactly what I was trying to get at.
I don't believe my dd actually hates tap. I think she thinks it's hard.
I for sure encourage her to stick it out for her own personal growth.
I think I would feel different if she was just blah aboit it.
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tappinmom

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Reply with quote  #44 
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Originally Posted by Ann121
That's a good point. Maybe I'm a just a softy, but I can't imagine forcing my crying child to do an extracurricular that she didn't want to do. Chances are, she was just scared or nervous to audition. Also though, I think a 14 year old should be able to have some say in the activities they want to do.


I must be a hard a$$ because I have forced DS to continue with something even through the tears.  He has some psychiatric issues and has since childhood and sometimes I need to be tough on him.  At 5 I decided it was time for him to learn to skate so I signed him for two sessions with the Parks and Rec.  He was excited until he got on the ice.  The first time he fell he roared like a bull but was not hurt so they pulled him back to his feet.  That lasted the entire lesson.  When he came off he told me he hated it because you fall and you get wet and it's cold.  I just told him that I had paid for two sessions and he had to finish the first one.  He finished and things got better but he hated me when I was forcing him to follow through.  I did teach him a lesson about living up to your commitments that served him well later in life.
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Ann121

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom


I must be a hard a$$ because I have forced DS to continue with something even through the tears.  He has some psychiatric issues and has since childhood and sometimes I need to be tough on him.  At 5 I decided it was time for him to learn to skate so I signed him for two sessions with the Parks and Rec.  He was excited until he got on the ice.  The first time he fell he roared like a bull but was not hurt so they pulled him back to his feet.  That lasted the entire lesson.  When he came off he told me he hated it because you fall and you get wet and it's cold.  I just told him that I had paid for two sessions and he had to finish the first one.  He finished and things got better but he hated me when I was forcing him to follow through.  I did teach him a lesson about living up to your commitments that served him well later in life.


I definitely agree with forcing children to fulfill things they've already committed to. It's our rule that you have to finish what you start. I just wouldn't force my child to do an activity that she didn't want to do. For example, she just got a flyer sent home about lacrosse and was very vocal about not wanting to play. I'm not gonna sign her up and make her join the team anyways.
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dancemonkey

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Reply with quote  #46 
My daughter tapped since she was three. I let her quilt when she was 15. Now she's decided after a year off she'd like to tapp again. You just never know. But I think from the original post your dd is omly a year.
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dancedaughters

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Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom


I must be a hard a$$ because I have forced DS to continue with something even through the tears.  He has some psychiatric issues and has since childhood and sometimes I need to be tough on him.  At 5 I decided it was time for him to learn to skate so I signed him for two sessions with the Parks and Rec.  He was excited until he got on the ice.  The first time he fell he roared like a bull but was not hurt so they pulled him back to his feet.  That lasted the entire lesson.  When he came off he told me he hated it because you fall and you get wet and it's cold.  I just told him that I had paid for two sessions and he had to finish the first one.  He finished and things got better but he hated me when I was forcing him to follow through.  I did teach him a lesson about living up to your commitments that served him well later in life.


But isn't this an example of forcing him to live up to YOUR commitments?
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tappinmom

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Reply with quote  #48 
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Originally Posted by dancedaughters


But isn't this an example of forcing him to live up to YOUR commitments?


I don't think it is.  He wanted to try skating and committed to 2 sessions.  I forced him (through his tears) to finish session 1 since it had already started and cancelled session 2.
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meatball77

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Reply with quote  #49 

“You know. Life's short. If you don't try new things, you'll never know what you're best at. And you can only make time for new things by quitting the things you know don't work for you.”
-- Meg Cabot

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LasMa

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Reply with quote  #50 
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Originally Posted by momofdanceobsessed
She is a very hard worker and doesn't have to know people or be in with friends to take a class BUT when you don't like the genre and then you are in with people you don't know and your friends have been tapping for 8 years...well it doesn't make it more fun. But her catching up to be in a level with friends will take years. There may be 9 yr holds in her class next year...I am thinking that is a no go


What about some private lessons with your studio's best tap specialist?  That would give her room to be a beginner, and yet would catch her up much more quickly.
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