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ballerinamom13

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Reply with quote  #26 
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Originally Posted by 2dornot2d


From what I heard, they are not the same school/business... and people said they are the "good Joffrey".



I don't know about "good" Joffrey, but they are definitely much more selective and kids who get accepted there have a chance to be considered for the year round program and trainee/second company positions.  If your child has talent and you are spending money to send them to a program, why would you not want the one with the better qualifications and opportunities?  I have zero experience with Joffrey NY because it doesn't have the opportunities other programs have and dd had no interest in attending,  but I think it depends on your kid's goals.  I'm sure it's a decent program and it's in NYC, which is a big plus.  So I think "good" may be a relative term.

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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #27 

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I don't know about "good" Joffrey, but they are definitely much more selective and kids who get accepted there have a chance to be considered for the year round program and trainee/second company positions.  If your child has talent and you are spending money to send them to a program, why would you not want the one with the better qualifications and opportunities?  I have zero experience with Joffrey NY because it doesn't have the opportunities other programs have and dd had no interest in attending,  but I think it depends on your kid's goals.  I'm sure it's a decent program and it's in NYC, which is a big plus.  So I think "good" may be a relative term.



Just expounding....I would agree that the choice between a Joffrey nyc and a Joffrey Chicago's year round program should be a no brainer if it works for a dancer and their family, but for most that's probably not the choice they are faced with.  Maybe it's matter of finances, maybe it's the logistics, maybe they don't get accepted to the school with the big reputation.  So the question for many then seems to become, "is it even worth it if I can't go to one of the more 'coveted' choices?"  Unfortunately, my experience has shown me that for too many the answer to that seems to be no.  

For whatever it's worth, my biggest concern for my own dd is the quality of her training not the name of the school. Lately I've been inundated w/the opinions of well meaning folks... folks who want to insist that dd must switch, NOW, to a company affiliated school.  And for the very same reasons given above... the opportunity for a position down the road. But reality is that only a very small percentage of dancers who attend these company affiliated schools ultimately end up w/a position in these companies.  So does it really make sense to completely uproot her... take her away from a school where we know for a fact that she will be getting top notch training in a very intimate setting... for such a very small chance?  Personally, I don't think so.  Definitely not now.  Maybe never.  

Sorry if I've gone too far afield.  I'm in the midst of the company affiliated schools vs non company affiliated schools discussions with a few people now so it's a topic that hits home.                    

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meatball77

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Reply with quote  #28 
I think too many people pick programs based on their names as opposed to which program really offers what their kids need.  You need to look at what your child needs in a program based on what they get at home and what they need for the future.  Do they need more performance experience?  Do they need regular partnering class?  Experience in genres other than ballet?  Lots of pointe work (not as much pointe work), an environment with competitive peers or a place that's more supportive, a chance to train in a specific style, a shorter sechedule or one that's jam packed ect. . .  . 

For my daughter our largest priority was that we would be someplace that was competitive enough that she would be placed with kids around her own age and still would be challenging because she trains with older kids at home.  She also wanted to go to a program that had a different feel than the camp like program she attended last year.  She auditioned lots of places that fit that criteria and made a chart based on what every intensive had to offer and chose WBS based on all those criteria and she's adoring everything about it (as far as I can tell, she generally just responds with one word texts).  She has a friend who auditioned lots of places and ended up attending the three letter program closest to home and is super frustrated that she seemed to be placed on age rather than skill and wishing she had performances and partnering and is wishing she went someplace different.

The very large programs that basically accept anyone with a basic level of skill (The Rock, ABT (they accept everyone but sort based on program), Joffery as the ones that come to mind) are generally really good programs educationally.  They hire solid teachers and have solid programs.  However because they accept such a wide variety of skill levels the age ranges in the programs are likely to be a wide spread (ten year olds and sixteen year olds in the same level).  There are also some competitive big name programs (Cough cough SAB) that treat their program more of an audition for their year round program rather than an educational experience so kids can grow and transform.
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ballerinamom13

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Reply with quote  #29 
"There are also some competitive big name programs (Cough cough SAB) that treat their program more of an audition for their year round program rather than an educational experience so kids can grow and transform."

And most people in the ballet world know this. Is that a problem?  Maybe that's what the small amount of people who get accepted want?  We don't have personal knowledge of the reasons people pick SI's.  What works for some won't work for others.  Maybe it's because it's an amazing Balanchine program and extremely hard to get into? Maybe it's the challenge to see if you are accepted, instead of going to smaller, less known places (even if they have decent training).  Maybe not auditioning for the selective SI's scares people because they really don't want to know where they stand?  There are hundreds of reasons. None of us know what's right for someone else, nor should we assume we do.
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #30 
I think (although I don't want to speak for Meatball) the point is simply to try not to get blinded by the fancy names. Don't assume the big name is going to be your ticket to success and don't assume that those lesser name programs are only for lesser (less talented, less dedicated and determined, less serious) dancers. While many, probably most dancers have nothing but a positive experience w/the big name programs, I've known plenty who have gone only to be disappointed.  And similarly, while many have been disappointed by a lesser known program, I've known plenty who went thinking it would likely just be a way to stay in shape only to be surprised at the quality/intensity of the training.  Just a fact that can't be reinforced enough imo.  The obsession with 'the formula' can cause more stress than it's worth.   And I always feel badly for those who get sucked into it.
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meatball77

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Reply with quote  #31 
My point exactly. 
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ggsmith

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Reply with quote  #32 
I think that for parents without a dance background (like myself) it is hard to know where our dancer fits in the scheme of things.

A (rather obnoxious) acquaintance shared on social media that her daughter was placed in the top level at the ABT summer intensive.  Honestly, I don't know if she is delusional or uninformed.  Her 12-year-old is at the ABT Young Dancer Workshop, at its third (and newest) location, Tampa.

I think knowing that the program your dancer has been accepted to is very competition or has a place for everyone is helpful if you are trying to get an idea if professional dance instructors see potential in your dancer.

But while it might be terrific to be able to say you were accepted to Harvard Law School, another lesser known school could be a better place for the student for any of a variety of reasons.
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tendumom

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Reply with quote  #33 
If I am not mistaken, 12 it's the oldest you can be at the ABT Young Dancer Workshop (not really an intensive, some complain about the lack of intensity). I would suspect that every other 12 year old is also in the highest level. At 12, they are old enough to be accepted to the actual intensive program where a 12 year old would not be in the highest level. (Just for anyone not familiar.)
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dave9988

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Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsmith
I think that for parents without a dance background (like myself) it is hard to know where our dancer fits in the scheme of things.

A (rather obnoxious) acquaintance shared on social media that her daughter was placed in the top level at the ABT summer intensive.  Honestly, I don't know if she is delusional or uninformed.  Her 12-year-old is at the ABT Young Dancer Workshop, at its third (and newest) location, Tampa.


My favorites are the parents who post "My kid was accepted into the PRESTIGIOUS xxx program."  If they have to state they are "prestigious," that's your first clue they might not be. 

As others have pointed out, prestige doesn't mean anything relative to the actual educational experience.  But geez.  Some FB posts just reek of ego.
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3dancingdaughters

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Reply with quote  #35 
I thought others might appreciate an update on the Joffrey Ballet auditions. I encouraged my DD, 14, to audition based on what people have been posting here and on other dance sites - that they accept almost everyone. My DD had a serious injury last year, and she is just getting back to full activity. Her confidence has been significantly hurt since she has seen so many of her dance friends advance in the 6 months she was unable to take class. I thought this might be a good way to get some of that confidence back (didn't mention what I had read about the acceptance rate!).

Anyway, it turns out that everyone is not accepted. Fortunately, DD was...but since I sat in the hallway at the auditions last week and watched all three ballet groups going into the auditions, and they are all wearing numbers, I know that around 170 kids auditioned. Joffrey lists who was accepted on their website, and I see that at the location where we were, 59 were accepted.

Just a little more information for anyone interested!
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dancermom128

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Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dancingdaughters
I thought others might appreciate an update on the Joffrey Ballet auditions. I encouraged my DD, 14, to audition based on what people have been posting here and on other dance sites - that they accept almost everyone. My DD had a serious injury last year, and she is just getting back to full activity. Her confidence has been significantly hurt since she has seen so many of her dance friends advance in the 6 months she was unable to take class. I thought this might be a good way to get some of that confidence back (didn't mention what I had read about the acceptance rate!).

Anyway, it turns out that everyone is not accepted. Fortunately, DD was...but since I sat in the hallway at the auditions last week and watched all three ballet groups going into the auditions, and they are all wearing numbers, I know that around 170 kids auditioned. Joffrey lists who was accepted on their website, and I see that at the location where we were, 59 were accepted.

Just a little more information for anyone interested!


I'm guessing that not everyone was posted. There's no way Joffrey is cutting that many people.

ETA: in looking at their results page I see that some dancers I know who got scholarships are not posted again in acceptances. I'm not knocking Joffrey in any way, my own DD went for 2 summers, but they aren't cutting 2/3 of the dancers. 
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tendumom

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Reply with quote  #37 

I am curious. Is this list something anyone can see? Is it, perhaps, specific to one of the very many programs such who was accepted to the NYC program or such? 

I also would be very surprised if not all were accepted. They have far too many spots to fill in programs around the US. They actually have thousands of students attend their various programs in the summer. Not hundreds, but thousands! 

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tendumom

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Reply with quote  #38 
But congrats to your dd on her acceptance either way! Will she attend? 
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #39 
Even if you did see #170, it's very possible that they didn't start at #1.
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tendumom

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Reply with quote  #40 
While it has been several years since dd attended 2 weeks of the Joffrey Ballet School SI in NYC, we were specifically told by a member of their administration that all the dancers would have an acceptance. The audition was for placement within their many programs. They also did not have a placement class on the first day. They were placed based on their audition, apparently. Dd's level was changed twice in the 2 weeks she was there. She is no prodigy and they fact that she was in the second highest level at 13 or 14 or however old she was, speaks volumes to me.  She did have an excellent experience. She received some corrections that corrected some ongoing issues. I remember her telling me something a teacher had told her that just changed everything in her alignment. So the teaching was definitely solid. She also gained a great deal of confidence coming in as a little fish in a little pond and leaving as a bigger fish in their bigger pond. So, it's definitely a worthwhile educational experience, just not one that is competitive for admission and accepts a VERY wide range. 
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PasDeChatMom

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tendumom

I am curious. Is this list something anyone can see? Is it, perhaps, specific to one of the very many programs such who was accepted to the NYC program or such? 

I also would be very surprised if not all were accepted. They have far too many spots to fill in programs around the US. They actually have thousands of students attend their various programs in the summer. Not hundreds, but thousands! 



https://summer.joffreyballetschool.com/auditions/results/#week-1

The results are there - scholarships at the top and acceptances below. Scholarship recipients are not duplicated in acceptances.
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hopefuldancer17

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Reply with quote  #42 
It looks like an average of 500 acceptances each week if I'm reading that page correctly! Wow. I knew it was a big program but never really processed just how big it is.
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tiptoemom

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Reply with quote  #43 
@joriebelle, I believe they are discussing Joffrey NYC and not Joffrey Chicago, which has the Company. There was a split years ago. 
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joriebelle

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Reply with quote  #44 
Aha. . . thanks tiptoemom.  I was confused [confused]
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ballerinamom13

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Reply with quote  #45 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefuldancer17
It looks like an average of 500 acceptances each week if I'm reading that page correctly! Wow. I knew it was a big program but never really processed just how big it is.


They have locations all over the country.
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meatball77

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Reply with quote  #46 
They have more programs than some intensives have students. . . . (I'm exaggerating but not by much)
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ggsmith

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Reply with quote  #47 
You have to remember that "acceptance"  does not always equal "attendance."  Given the way the programs are set up, attendance could mean anything from one week to all summer.

Selective admissions is not a guarantee of high quality training and a program that accepts all or most of its applicants can offer good training.  It is important to find the best fit for your dancer and your family.
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Emmie46

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Reply with quote  #48 
I do not believe that is true of the Chicago Joffrey. We have several dancers that went to the SI last year and was accepted this year again including mine. My DD might not go to any SI this year however.
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Originally Posted by joriebelle
Joffrey SI does not have a stellar reputation in our area; my DD is "not allowed" to go there for SI (we live in the Chicago area).  Way different from the year round program and company which DOES have a great reputation.  I have no idea if this is true or not, just what I heard.  Please take with a grain of salt.
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LittleMonkeyMom

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joriebelle
Joffrey SI does not have a stellar reputation in our area; my DD is "not allowed" to go there for SI (we live in the Chicago area).  Way different from the year round program and company which DOES have a great reputation.  I have no idea if this is true or not, just what I heard.  Please take with a grain of salt.


Joribelle, out of curiosity, where is your dd allowed to go in the Chicago area?

We are also in the Chicago area & I would love to find a good summer opportunity for my dd (although she is more jazz/contemporary focused than ballet ...).
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joriebelle

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Reply with quote  #50 
Good places in the Chicago area for ballet/contemporary, IMHO, are Salt Creek, Visceral, A & A, Faubourg, Ballet Chicago.
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