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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi459
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Originally Posted by kmpmom
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Originally Posted by MinnDanceMom
I can honestly say that braces don't affect scores in my area. Some of the most talented dancers in my area have braces or have had braces and there was no change in their dancing before or after they had braces. They won first overall plenty during their time with braces. I don't think looks have much to do with how someone scores at a dance competition. It may affect a professional career in dance (or more likely modeling or acting), but a professional career is so far removed from competing at dance competitions that it is not even funny. I also don't think someone's "smile" has anything to do with how they score on a solo at 13. But that is just based on my observation. Dancers with braces can and do convey all sorts of emotions, including a happy emotion. This topic is ridiculous. What's next, beauty pageants to determine who is attractive enough to compete. [wink] All of this being said, I do know of dancers who chose to do Invisalign because they did not like the look of metal braces. They may have done this because of some perceived sense that judges would penalize them because of their braces. However, that decision was more based on some internal beliefs rather than reality. There are also some people who are insecure and don't want to look "different." If braces affect their dancing, that is because of their own insecurity and, again, not based on reality.


Super glad that all the dancers in your area are ultra self-confident and are able to emote with their faces with a mouth full (and I don't mean partial ..I mean wall to wall, top to bottom) metal in their mouths.  Yeah, we pretty it up by matching the elastics or the little bracket things to costume colours but the reality is that it affects the way they move their face and in my DD's case, it actually altered the way she looked.  Her mouth was much more pronounced as if it was being stretched out.  Because of this, some dancers with a full mouth of metal are forced to get one look on their face and stay there.  And that makes them boring no matter what their technique is like.  They probably still do really well if they're great dancers, but that little extra bit that comes from a radiant smile is left on the table.  Would you rather look at a lit up face, or one that's pretty much the same throughout a dance?   Perhaps I'm shallow but I like the big smile and probably a lot of judges do too when it comes to choosing between two dancers.  

I don't care for the bolded statement.  All teenagers have insecurities in some form or another.  It's their reality.  Perhaps not yours.  But it is theirs.




I actually tend to agree with MinnDanceMom's sentiment but maybe that's because I don't see it as a negative.  You said it yourself, it's "their" insecurity that can sometimes impact their performance and that is what effects the score.  That's very different than a judge saying to themselves... "oh that girl is such a beautiful dancer but she has braces and I hate the look of braces so I'm going to knock off a few points for that".  


I would agree that their insecurity is part of it, and that is, in fact reality.  In their case it's not stage nerves, or shaking hands, or sweaty palms ... some of them can have difficulty moving their face without it looking awkward for a moment.  I did not say judges "hated the look of braces" or that they "knocked points off".   I don't believe that to be true for a moment and in fact would be pretty peeved if it were true.  

What I said was that braces affect facial movement.  That affects facial performance.  When you have two dancers with equal technique, a judge is likely to give the edge to the beautiful smile.  Basic psychology.  The didn't take anything away from the dancer with braces, they just gave an edge to the smile they could enjoy.  I DO listen to the tapes after every competition.  All three judges (as boring as that sounds).  I know what I'm talking about on this one without going into personal detail. 

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MinnDanceMom

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinnDanceMom
I can honestly say that braces don't affect scores in my area. Some of the most talented dancers in my area have braces or have had braces and there was no change in their dancing before or after they had braces. They won first overall plenty during their time with braces. I don't think looks have much to do with how someone scores at a dance competition. It may affect a professional career in dance (or more likely modeling or acting), but a professional career is so far removed from competing at dance competitions that it is not even funny. I also don't think someone's "smile" has anything to do with how they score on a solo at 13. But that is just based on my observation. Dancers with braces can and do convey all sorts of emotions, including a happy emotion. This topic is ridiculous. What's next, beauty pageants to determine who is attractive enough to compete. [wink] All of this being said, I do know of dancers who chose to do Invisalign because they did not like the look of metal braces. They may have done this because of some perceived sense that judges would penalize them because of their braces. However, that decision was more based on some internal beliefs rather than reality. There are also some people who are insecure and don't want to look "different." If braces affect their dancing, that is because of their own insecurity and, again, not based on reality.


Super glad that all the dancers in your area are ultra self-confident and are able to emote with their faces with a mouth full (and I don't mean partial ..I mean wall to wall, top to bottom) metal in their mouths.  Yeah, we pretty it up by matching the elastics or the little bracket things to costume colours but the reality is that it affects the way they move their face and in my DD's case, it actually altered the way she looked.  Her mouth was much more pronounced as if it was being stretched out.  Because of this, some dancers with a full mouth of metal are forced to get one look on their face and stay there.  And that makes them boring no matter what their technique is like.  They probably still do really well if they're great dancers, but that little extra bit that comes from a radiant smile is left on the table.  Would you rather look at a lit up face, or one that's pretty much the same throughout a dance?   Perhaps I'm shallow but I like the big smile and probably a lot of judges do too when it comes to choosing between two dancers.  

I don't care for the bolded statement.  All teenagers have insecurities in some form or another.  It's their reality.  Perhaps not yours.  But it is theirs.




I actually tend to agree with MinnDanceMom's sentiment but maybe that's because I don't see it as a negative.  You said it yourself, it's "their" insecurity that can sometimes impact their performance and that is what effects the score.  That's very different than a judge saying to themselves... "oh that girl is such a beautiful dancer but she has braces and I hate the look of braces so I'm going to knock off a few points for that".  


Thank you for your comment. I never mean to say anything negative about anyone. Most of my comments are kind of general hypotheticals.
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DanceTumbleCheerMom

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Reply with quote  #53 
like someone else said.... I thought I had heard it all until now.

Actually,  When DD11 messed up her wrist Tumbling, the Orthopedist put her in a black wrist support.  One of the Jr Coaches told me that she couldnt wear it in competition, because it was distracting to the judges.  I told her she was nuts, DD wore it anyway.

things like this drive me NUTS!
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpmom
I would agree that their insecurity is part of it, and that is, in fact reality.  In their case it's not stage nerves, or shaking hands, or sweaty palms ... some of them can have difficulty moving their face without it looking awkward for a moment.  I did not say judges "hated the look of braces" or that they "knocked points off".   I don't believe that to be true for a moment and in fact would be pretty peeved if it were true.  

What I said was that braces affect facial movement.  That affects facial performance.  When you have two dancers with equal technique, a judge is likely to give the edge to the beautiful smile.  Basic psychology.  The didn't take anything away from the dancer with braces, they just gave an edge to the smile they could enjoy.  I DO listen to the tapes after every competition.  All three judges (as boring as that sounds).  I know what I'm talking about on this one without going into personal detail. 



I hear ya kmpmom.  I wasn't arguing w/you, just explaining that I thought I understood what MinnDanceMom was trying to say & agreed w/her... & explaining why it didn't strike me as a negative.  I get what you're saying but still am not quite sure that it's something that has to be a problem.  My own dd has now had 4 solos & not one of them would be hampered w/limited facial movement.  So I guess what I'm saying is that if a child has that much trouble moving their face, I would expect the choreographer not to choreograph a number that required big facial movements/smiles.  If they want the kid to succeed they've got to work w/what they have, not call attention to the problem... & then blame the problem.
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpmom
I would agree that their insecurity is part of it, and that is, in fact reality.  In their case it's not stage nerves, or shaking hands, or sweaty palms ... some of them can have difficulty moving their face without it looking awkward for a moment.  I did not say judges "hated the look of braces" or that they "knocked points off".   I don't believe that to be true for a moment and in fact would be pretty peeved if it were true.  

What I said was that braces affect facial movement.  That affects facial performance.  When you have two dancers with equal technique, a judge is likely to give the edge to the beautiful smile.  Basic psychology.  The didn't take anything away from the dancer with braces, they just gave an edge to the smile they could enjoy.  



I hear ya kmpmom.  I wasn't arguing w/you, just explaining that I thought I understood what MinnDanceMom was trying to say & agreed w/her... & explaining why it didn't strike me as a negative.  I get what you're saying but still am not quite sure that it's something that has to be a problem.  My own dd has now had 4 solos & not one of them would be hampered w/limited facial movement.  So I guess what I'm saying is that if a child has that much trouble moving their face, I would expect the choreographer not to choreograph a number that required big facial movements/smiles.  If they want the kid to succeed they've got to work w/what they have, not call attention to the problem... & then blame the problem.


Good point. 
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DanceTumbleCheerMom

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Reply with quote  #56 
If braces interere with facial expressions, how do all the tween and teen all star cheerleaders manage their over the top facials.  Last year 3/4 of DD11's team had braces and they managed to win a National Championship.
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanceTumbleCheerMom
If braces interere with facial expressions, how do all the tween and teen all star cheerleaders manage their over the top facials.  Last year 3/4 of DD11's team had braces and they managed to win a National Championship.


I'm no expert on cheerleading but they all seem to have the same exuberant expression all the way - or the exact opposite expression.  As opposed to dance, especially MT, where you might be asked to express a variety of emotions on your face throughout the 2.5 minutes.  And you're out there alone.  
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #58 
And btw, my opinion on braces is really no where near as strong as it's coming across in my responses to posts.  Everyone has them, they do an amazing job, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to do it all over again for my daughter, and I really don't care one bit if it did or didn't affect her results.  Her life long mouth health is so much more important.  Please don't take from any of these responses that I think dancers should not have braces, that dancers suffer for having them in terms of results, etc.  For MY child, the braces were huge and affected her in many ways. But they're off now, and she LOVES her smile.  That's the only thing that matters.  

And if a studio, a school, a judge, an employer, a boyfriend …anyone really.. ever said she shouldn't have had the braces or needed to take them off, my wrath wouldn't have been needed. She'd have given them a piece of her mind and walked away.
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mpcmom

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Reply with quote  #59 
Honestly this is so way out of line it does not even sound real. How does this studio even have dancers?  It this is a legit expectation they have, there's no telling what else they expect, I'd take that as my cue to find a different studio.
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emcandance

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Reply with quote  #60 
I don't think I have ever heard something so ridiculous in my life. This is a dance competition with the judges evaluated the dancers performance.  I have never been distracted from a dancers performance because they are wearing braces.  Maybe your SO watches too much reality tv??????
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LoveJillyLilly2Dance

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Reply with quote  #61 
Totally ridiculous! Funny how this article showed up today. Yes you CAN book jobs with braces!

https://www.yahoo.com/style/cr-fashion-book-says-imperfection-is-in-112154974663.html

The 17-year-old, who recently signed with Ford models, is young, beautiful, and fresh-faced. Hayes’ exceptionally attractive looks and unblemished face caught the attention of both casting agents and fashion editors, but her silver braces make her relatable. Smiling wide and showing off her aqua orthodontics, the joy Hayes evokes displaying an imperfection, and what used to be an embarrassing accessory, sends a message to awkward teens everywhere to embrace themselves (because one of the most prolific people in fashion could pluck you for a cover story).
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emmymom

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Reply with quote  #62 
Hmmmm...I wonder if they have a Grand Staircase in their home? [wink]
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmymom
Hmmmm...I wonder if they have a Grand Staircase in their home? [wink]


Bracketed by two 16' Douglas Fir Christmas trees.  
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3girls

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Reply with quote  #64 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmpmom
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Originally Posted by emmymom
Hmmmm...I wonder if they have a Grand Staircase in their home? [wink]


Bracketed by two 16' Douglas Fir Christmas trees.  


Ah yes, as they are on their way to the Ortho to have the braces removed said child will take a nasty fall down the stairs.  This will result in a trip to the ER and lengthy hospital stay since the damage done to her childs mouth will be unlike anything the Dr's have seen before. [rolleyes]
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DanceTumbleCheerMom

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3girls
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Originally Posted by kmpmom
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Originally Posted by emmymom
Hmmmm...I wonder if they have a Grand Staircase in their home? [wink]


Bracketed by two 16' Douglas Fir Christmas trees.  


Ah yes, as they are on their way to the Ortho to have the braces removed said child will take a nasty fall down the stairs.  This will result in a trip to the ER and lengthy hospital stay since the damage done to her childs mouth will be unlike anything the Dr's have seen before. [rolleyes]


But she will still dance with a broken arm and leg.
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LexiandAbbysmom

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Reply with quote  #66 
That is crazy!  My daughter danced with braces for almost two years.  Many of the girls in her group wear braces.  When my youngest got glasses at 9 years old I did have a discussion with the teacher about glasses vs. contacts.  We put her in contacts right away.  I am actually glad we made this decision.
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dancermom128

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Reply with quote  #67 
And she will be texting her long lost friend who miraculously will have a mother on here. 
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My2DanceLoves

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Reply with quote  #68 
Ah the memories.
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dancermom128

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Reply with quote  #69 
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Ah the memories.


The good 'ole days when the trolls would stick around for some laughs...
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My2DanceLoves

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Reply with quote  #70 
In truth .... I think the boards need a good troll once in a while.  BUT one with cajones that will at least give it the good college try.  Shake everyone up a bit ...we get a little boring from time to time. [biggrin] 

OH!  And imagination ..... they need a very vivid imagination.
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beachgirl

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Reply with quote  #71 
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Originally Posted by dancermom128
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Originally Posted by My2DanceLoves
Ah the memories.


The good 'ole days when the trolls would stick around for some laughs...


They do seem to come and go very quickly lately!
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emmymom

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Reply with quote  #72 
Gosh I love you guys! [love]
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcadedweller
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Originally Posted by dancermom128
Oh yes if it's a studio in CT that wins everywhere I would most certainly know the name. Never heard of a studio not allowing braces, and something tells me I still haven't .


Maybe she was a dancer worried about getting braces. (Or trying to convince her parents she needed Invisalign because metal ones would ruin her chance at solos.)
Just a thought I had when I tried to see if there was anything behind the troll. [thumb]


Well, she did use the phrase "on a seemingly unrelated subject..."   So, while I respect your desire to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I'm not betting on it [biggrin]
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socalkdg

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Reply with quote  #74 
I always thought braces were just bling for the teeth.  We bling everything else.  [smile]
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