Register Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 3      Prev   1   2   3   Next
lilkeebler1

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #26 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom



I agree with Tendumom 100%  How many (potentially talented) kids are missing out on the love of dance or getting real training because there families will never be able to afford competition dance? Why did studios forgo creating local performance opportunities because competitions exist now? Our comp studio used to have school shows that educated grade school kids about dance and they used to have several performance opportunities other than recitals around Christmas and spring. They don't do that now, for the last 5 years. How many teachers are compromising solid technique for tricks to win now? Competition at this point is fully changing the face of dance. It seems like it's either serious ballet, very recreational programs, or comp dance no matter where you look. People who aren't involved don't even think anything but comp style dance exists.


Totally agree with this [frown]
0
dave9988

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 564
Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom



I agree with Tendumom 100%  How many (potentially talented) kids are missing out on the love of dance or getting real training because there families will never be able to afford competition dance? Why did studios forgo creating local performance opportunities because competitions exist now? Our comp studio used to have school shows that educated grade school kids about dance and they used to have several performance opportunities other than recitals around Christmas and spring. They don't do that now, for the last 5 years. How many teachers are compromising solid technique for tricks to win now? Competition at this point is fully changing the face of dance. It seems like it's either serious ballet, very recreational programs, or comp dance no matter where you look. People who aren't involved don't even think anything but comp style dance exists.


To be fair, this is not unique to dance.  One can't play rec tennis, hockey, lacrosse, diving, whatever, and expect to compete at a high level either.  
0
tendumom

Avatar / Picture

High Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,053
Reply with quote  #28 
But it's not entirely true in dance. There are now very rare gems that don't compete. It wasn't already this way, but it is today. They were once the norm. Dance is not a competitive sport by nature. It's not like hockey or baseball or tennis where the goal is to win.

The bottom line is money. There is more money to be made with competitions. The next line is parents. Many want this. It's all about going for the gold or placing. We see it all the time here. There's a lack of patience in understanding that good technique comes with good instruction and time. No one has the patience for that it seems. If a kid isn't performing every week, there's something wrong. You really don't need to complete a number a half a dozen times. What does that cost? More comp fees, more travel expenses... At the cost of more class time. I see schedules that are filled with rehearsals.. Where are the technique classes? Leaps and turns class doesn't really make up for real classes. There shouldn't be a need for that if there are actual technique classes.

It wasn't until I started looking around 10 years ago that I realized that not all studios even have real technique classes where dancers learn to dance. They learn steps and actual different combinations instead of the same dance for months at a time. I hear that's why conventions are so important. Truth is that is what should be happening in your studios every single week in every genre.
0
dave9988

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 564
Reply with quote  #29 
I agree with all of those points, just saying that high level dance training isn't inexpensive. It might eliminate some of the "frill expenses" (costumes that will never be used again, travel to competitions that don't really further education, etc).  But it's still unaffordable for a great many.
0
5678StarMom

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 629
Reply with quote  #30 
At 2/3 studios in my town of >40,000 competition is most definitely the focus that doesn't put technique first. And the third studio also competes, they just have what I would consider a better technique program that doesn't completely leave kids out of classes if they don't want to be on team. Both other studios have competition kids only tech classes, making it impossible to get good training if you aren't on team.

Here's a new thought related to this thread...How many people have teachers at their studios that aren't qualified, related to competition dance. Meaning...the teachers that agree to be involved and teach this stuff are just grown up comp dancers themselves with no additional training. (And another aside, maybe that's why there is also so much questionable or just bad choreography?) Could the way competition dance has evolved and blown up be because the first generation of competition dancers are grown up and opening studios now? (And/or having children themselves?)
0
5678StarMom

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 629
Reply with quote  #31 
re: expensive training. I only have my experience to go by, but I would think that in bigger cities with more options, the more likely a talented or determined dancer would be able to find a non for profit studio that could give them a scholarship or work study. That's not something that happens much around my area.
0
5678StarMom

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 629
Reply with quote  #32 
And last comment for now, I promise [wink]

From what I can find, comp dance isn't that old, so for me it makes sense that we are just now seeing standards change and some of what I was talking about happening. I really feel like it's because studios weren't built for comp dance before, when now they are. Interesting... It has really blown up!

Does anyone else know of a competition older that showstoppers at 38 years old?

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111203212906AAVlOyu
0
tappinmom

Avatar / Picture

Double Diamond Member
Registered:
Posts: 13,209
Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom
And last comment for now, I promise [wink] From what I can find, comp dance isn't that old, so for me it makes sense that we are just now seeing standards change and some of what I was talking about happening. I really feel like it's because studios weren't built for comp dance before, when now they are. Interesting... It has really blown up! Does anyone else know of a competition older that showstoppers at 38 years old? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111203212906AAVlOyu


I was competing40 years ago here in Canada.  There weren't a ton of competitions but they did exist.  Things like CNDC and Kiwanis or other music festivals always included a dance section.
0
Noel

Avatar / Picture

Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 253
Reply with quote  #34 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom
At 2/3 studios in my town of >40,000 competition is most definitely the focus that doesn't put technique first. And the third studio also competes, they just have what I would consider a better technique program that doesn't completely leave kids out of classes if they don't want to be on team. Both other studios have competition kids only tech classes, making it impossible to get good training if you aren't on team. Here's a new thought related to this thread...How many people have teachers at their studios that aren't qualified, related to competition dance. Meaning...the teachers that agree to be involved and teach this stuff are just grown up comp dancers themselves with no additional training. (And another aside, maybe that's why there is also so much questionable or just bad choreography?) Could the way competition dance has evolved and blown up be because the first generation of competition dancers are grown up and opening studios now? (And/or having children themselves?)


Yes Yes and Yes ! I do believe that you are on to something here. Largely as a result of reading and reading and reading questions and answers on this forum from recently and beyond I paid great attention whenever posters asked about how to select a studio, how to select the next studio, how to determine if a studio is a good quality learning environment... I offer this observation (that I developed by learning from others here):

Look at the instructors at the studio. Where are they coming from? Is the studio largely, or entirely "inbred", in other words former dancers who were brought up in the studio and promoted to assistants and then instructors without ever leaving the nest? Or is there great diversity with some degree of pedigree and variety; instructors who did not grow up in this studio, or who may have roots there but who left to pursue training at other centers as well.  Is there conformity and consistency to toe the line set by the studio owner or is diversity and innovation fostered in the instructors? For high risk activities like tumbling how are the instructors trained? 15 year olds who have simply been at the studio for a while and can tumble well on their own spotting aerials and hand springs or trained professionals who bring their own knowledge of safety.

I absolutely do believe that there is a younger generation of studio owner and employee prevalent right now who truly have little to no real life experience outside of their own little part of the dance snow globe and they have no interest in anyone shaking the globe. They attend the same competitions and expand upon the same themes from year to year continuing to make money from what has always worked, not necessarily striving to educate young dancers in an art, rather striving to make it through another competition year successfully. They define success by the numbers of dancers and the results at competitions instead of the consistent production of able and educated artists.

It is getting more and more difficult to find true dance teachers instead of warm bodies simply regurgitating what they have been taught. At least in my area. If you can find a true dance instruction setting, it's something to be excited about.
0
classydance

Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 2,064
Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi459


SIs have become huge business.  No longer can any real conclusions be drawn based on acceptance alone (with a handful of exceptions, of course).


This is so true.
0
Dancingemu

High Silver Member
Registered:
Posts: 154
Reply with quote  #36 
Needed to hear this. Where we were the options were stay in the beginner classes or go the competition route. So when we made the switch, we planned to go competition again. Turns out, while the new place has competition groups, they are not the primary education. The competition girls are required to do the regular level appropriate classes in addition to extra classes to learn their comp routines.

Learning this has taken off a lot if stress on our financial obligation and concern for time commitment when I have more than one child in activities. My girl is not one that will go pro, just likes to dance.
0
jmoodle28

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom


I was competing40 years ago here in Canada.  There weren't a ton of competitions but they did exist.  Things like CNDC and Kiwanis or other music festivals always included a dance section.


In response to the question about how old dance competitions are go to link below, the owner is a friend. One vendor discredits her, since 2011 jealousy I guess, but I have known her 68 years we are childhood friends, my daughter, now a dance mom, studied with her. She researched what many are saying and decided to go in a different direction using her experiences in dance and education. FYI dance competitions in Boston began in 1973, in Buffalo NY earlier, and dance teacher organizations (DMA, DEA) earlier, not sure of the exact date. I attended competitions and recitals with her when my child danced and competed, and recently. She decided to reopen a small studio, recreational style I think it is called, and combine her experiences in dance and public education.

She covers a brief history of dance competitions on her blog on the site and how the adjudicated system began and her new score system based on what students should be able to do at specific ages technically correct. I do not want to misquote her, go to the site, read the blog. I think there is something this summer, but again check out what it says. I went to the DMA Boston events with her and my daughter. She became a school teacher, now retired she is looking into other directions for dance. Her favorite term is "fiscally responsible", in other words affordable. we are old skewl my grandson says.

Link: https://www.skillsdance.com/

Blog: https://goo.gl/sdEkkf


0
cndb

Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 475
Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom
And last comment for now, I promise [wink] From what I can find, comp dance isn't that old, so for me it makes sense that we are just now seeing standards change and some of what I was talking about happening. I really feel like it's because studios weren't built for comp dance before, when now they are. Interesting... It has really blown up! Does anyone else know of a competition older that showstoppers at 38 years old? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111203212906AAVlOyu


I am almost 50.

When I was a girl, we competed at competitions like DMA, Tremaine, Showbiz, Star Systems, and a few others.  My younger sister (30s) competed at many other competitions.

Competition dance has been around since at least the late 70s.  My first comp was when I was 9, and it was an established competition.

Competition back then was usually a one time a year big event, or just a couple of times per year for the big cities.  Nationals were a BIG deal as there was only one per competition.   The awards used to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and everyone else got honorable mention unless the category was huge.  As far as I can remember, the adjudicated judging with multiple placements did not start until the early 90s.

That everyone is a winner super duper triple titanium platinum thing is a recent invention.  I think that is where dance competitions have really gone off the deep end.  At that point, it becomes about selling an experience and not really about competing dance.
0
jmoodle28

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #39 
Agree, my granddaughter age 9, went to a comp in New England, it started at 4:30 AM on a Sunday and ended about 11:00 PM I guess. There were sessions on Saturday too. She said it was mainly solos and titles. My daughter pulled her daughter's solo for Sunday and did not going to the nationals. She has been around dance comps since 1982, but she is not in dance. She only wanted her daughter to experience it. My granddaughter prefers soccer. It is what it is


0
Jinkerbelle

Avatar / Picture

Silver Member
Registered:
Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #40 
My daughter is 14 and has only danced for four years. The first year was only hip hop. She loves it and feels this crazy need to catch up with the girls that have been dancing much much longer than her. Her studio is so close to home, mainly intermediate studio. I really wish sometimes lately (especially after getting home from nationals yesterday) that we could jump off the crazy train. She did awesome at nationals, got to the World Series and won and all that....but is it really worth it all? Sometimes I dunno. I would love to cut back the competition team stuff this year, she already opted out of school team, and focus more on technique and ballet.... but I wouldn't even know where else to start and if she would really be down with cutting back due to her friends there and she won the most improved award. So she feels validated but I no longer have on the exciting Dance blinders!
0
dave9988

Avatar / Picture

High Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 564
Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinkerbelle
My daughter is 14 and has only danced for four years. The first year was only hip hop. She loves it and feels this crazy need to catch up with the girls that have been dancing much much longer than her. Her studio is so close to home, mainly intermediate studio. I really wish sometimes lately (especially after getting home from nationals yesterday) that we could jump off the crazy train. She did awesome at nationals, got to the World Series and won and all that....but is it really worth it all? Sometimes I dunno. I would love to cut back the competition team stuff this year, she already opted out of school team, and focus more on technique and ballet.... but I wouldn't even know where else to start and if she would really be down with cutting back due to her friends there and she won the most improved award. So she feels validated but I no longer have on the exciting Dance blinders!


We aren't all that into comps, but have the same feeling.  A lot!  Ballet training is a crazy train of its own.   
0
Jinkerbelle

Avatar / Picture

Silver Member
Registered:
Posts: 59
Reply with quote  #42 
Thank you Dave! It is nice to know I am not alone in that feeling!
0
Beccasmom

Avatar / Picture

High Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 3,844
Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoodle28
Agree, my granddaughter age 9, went to a comp in New England, it started at 4:30 AM on a Sunday and ended about 11:00 PM I guess. There were sessions on Saturday too. She said it was mainly solos and titles. My daughter pulled her daughter's solo for Sunday and did not going to the nationals. She has been around dance comps since 1982, but she is not in dance. She only wanted her daughter to experience it. My granddaughter prefers soccer. It is what it is

Comps do not start at 4:30 AM. Maybe that's when she had to get up to be there, but the earliest I have seen a comp start (in the US) is 7 AM.

0
lilkeebler1

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 18
Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cndb


That everyone is a winner super duper triple titanium platinum thing is a recent invention.  I think that is where dance competitions have really gone off the deep end.  At that point, it becomes about selling an experience and not really about competing dance.


This...
0
jmoodle28

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #45 
Maybe 4:30 AM was the time to get up, however I saw my daughter's friends also complain about the 4:30 AM call to dance. I cannot name the event, however I did notice that at the nationals videos posted online that my daugter showed me, the classes at the competition did not have as many students in the classes as I thought there would be. I think there may have been a backlash.

I agree with my friend and others here, the scoring needs to be different, parents want the "participation" gold medals, but her score system is different, it allows for that but differently. It is too complicated for me to explain here. She worked in public education, teaching for a well known foundation. She modified their method to train adjudicators. There's a lot to what she does. She had those who want to judge meet online via Skype. I watched it, the people attending seemed to like it.
0
tappinmom

Avatar / Picture

Double Diamond Member
Registered:
Posts: 13,209
Reply with quote  #46 
We have had to be up at 4:30 AM to leave for a comp but the earliest they will start here in Canada is 8AM so you would have a 7AM call time when they open the doors to the venue.
0
jmoodle28

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #47 
I checked they could enter the building where the compa was held at 7:00 AM but they had a practice by their teacher at 6:00 AM. My granddaughter is only 9, so she is going to do th new SKILLS Dance As Sport team, instead of a comp team. It is only 90 minutes  one day a week. No costumes, just team dancewear. Thanks everyone
0
disneymom2two

Gold Member
Registered:
Posts: 351
Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom
We have had to be up at 4:30 AM to leave for a comp but the earliest they will start here in Canada is 8AM so you would have a 7AM call time when they open the doors to the venue.

This is why we always get a hotel room.  My daughter and I are not morning people.  I'd rather get the extra 30-60 minutes of sleep and be really close to the venue.
0
tendumom

Avatar / Picture

High Platinum Member
Registered:
Posts: 4,053
Reply with quote  #49 
As far as how old the oldest competitions are, I'm not sure but I know DMA was around when I was a kid in the 1970's. I know my cousin was doing competitions in the early 70's as well, but I don't know which ones. They certainly were not the mainstay of dance studios back then like they are today. Even the scene 15 years ago, when I was surprised at how the competition world had grown tremendously, doesn't compare to today! 
0
jmoodle28

Bronze Member
Registered:
Posts: 10
Reply with quote  #50 

From the DMA page

"In 1884, the American National Association Masters of Dancing was founded in Boston, MA and in 1894, the International Masters of Dancing held its first convention in St. Louis, MO.  For several years, attempts were made to bring the two organizations together. In 1926 they held a joint convention at the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City and on August 27th, 1926 the two organizations became one and the Dancing Masters of America was formed.  In 1948, the name was changed to Dance Masters of America, Inc. chartered in Hartford, CT."
more info here
https://dancemastersofamerica.org/about-us/history/

As far as private competitions the earliest I remember was 1973, I attended in Boston with my friend, one day 35 entries lasted almost 10 hours due to technical problems (reel to reel tapes). I attended a national final competition in Boston last year, not much had changed, and watched one competition recently, a national on livestream, again not much changed. Children competing above skill levels, in many cases poor technique, and solos on little ones outdated. As a parent I am not interested in the new smoke and mirrors concepts, the DJ's are always great, but the model is the same since 1977. I prefer a time managment approach. My daughter works for FB in Cambridge MA, she is stressed and on weekends plans activities on Saturdays and family time on Sundays. That's part of the reason she chose a different event for my granddaughter in 2017-2018. Works for us, and I guess it is going to work for many

0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation: