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tendumom

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Reply with quote  #51 

As far as exams, ABT offers exams to the National Training Curriculum schools. 

The curriculum begins with pre-primary which is ages 3-5. Exams can begin with Primary students. There are 3 levels, A-C. A is ages 5 and 6, B is 6 and 7, C is 7 and 8 though most 8 years are in Level 1. There is no need to do the levels below level 1 from my understanding, so the actual ballet training (not pre-ballet) starts at age 8. 

Dd did exams her last 3 years there. They did not offer them at first. 

After skimming this thread, I will probably end up watching a few episodes. Would like to know which one Debby Allen is in so I don't waste too much time on the others! 

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Jacaranda

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Reply with quote  #52 
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Originally Posted by Psmom
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Originally Posted by tappinmom
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Originally Posted by Jacaranda
I loved the group dance. It was great to see them so excited to do it, and it was great to see them do a new style. It was a fun dance and it came together very well. I loved Jojo's solo as well, that make up was pretty incredible and she does play the character well. I loved her attitude, she gets all the crazy parts and she just embraces them. Other kids get given weird parts that are not so pretty and they complain, but Jojo gets excited about whatever she is given and then embraces it. Like last week in the bubble, any other parent would have had a heart attack after all the panic about not having air. But Jojo and Jess took it in their stride. I was also very disappointed in Kendall's solo. That would not even place in the top 50 in her age group at our competitions. For me I think the personality on stage is a huge part of performing. I dance all through my childhood, teen years and early adulthood and in those days there was a lot less emphasis on tricks and a lot more emphasis on stage presence and using the body to make what we did look good. We didn't do 100 turns in a row but we spent many hours learning to turn the shoulders in such a way as to accentuate the head line and so on (but we still did triple and quad turns). Kendal displayed such poor personality, but the dance didn't exactly have that much skill to and up for it either. I liked the idea that the other girls were learning the solos too. The emphasis was only constantly learning. The focus on their education as a dancer rather than just learning routines for a show. I lov d the idea of bringing in the Mini's. One of my favourite things about dance studios is the beautiful interaction between the older and younger kids. The little ones look up to the older ones like big sisters and want to be like them and the older ones love the little ones like little sisters. It would be lovely to see all of that happening. It was quite funny to hear Abby say that they were going to experience a real competition, when no doubt those kids have all be competing for quite some time and at much bigger competitions. You know in Australia we don't have the notion that real ballet does not begin until age 8 or above. Most studios have the kids taking their ballet exams from around 5 years of age. Our kids do 2 ballet classes a week and take ballet exams as well as a role in the ballet production from 4 or 5. They are doing proper barre work from age 5-6.


DS did his first RAD ballet exam at 5 here in Canada.

RAD is the same no matter where you are so of course children in the US follow that syllabus as well. A 5 year old in ballet is not doing the same kind of work as an 8 or 9 year old. That's just due to being 5 not the country in which you live. My daughters were both in RAD programs at 5. That's one of them as a 4 year old in my profile pic.


We don't do RAD (although we used to). The kids do CSTD ballet. The first level exam can be done in the year the kids are 4 turning 5, and then in Primaty which can be done when they are 5 turning 6 they are doing barre work.
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Psmom

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
I loved the group dance. It was great to see them so excited to do it, and it was great to see them do a new style. It was a fun dance and it came together very well. I loved Jojo's solo as well, that make up was pretty incredible and she does play the character well. I loved her attitude, she gets all the crazy parts and she just embraces them. Other kids get given weird parts that are not so pretty and they complain, but Jojo gets excited about whatever she is given and then embraces it. Like last week in the bubble, any other parent would have had a heart attack after all the panic about not having air. But Jojo and Jess took it in their stride. I was also very disappointed in Kendall's solo. That would not even place in the top 50 in her age group at our competitions. For me I think the personality on stage is a huge part of performing. I dance all through my childhood, teen years and early adulthood and in those days there was a lot less emphasis on tricks and a lot more emphasis on stage presence and using the body to make what we did look good. We didn't do 100 turns in a row but we spent many hours learning to turn the shoulders in such a way as to accentuate the head line and so on (but we still did triple and quad turns). Kendal displayed such poor personality, but the dance didn't exactly have that much skill to and up for it either. I liked the idea that the other girls were learning the solos too. The emphasis was only constantly learning. The focus on their education as a dancer rather than just learning routines for a show. I lov d the idea of bringing in the Mini's. One of my favourite things about dance studios is the beautiful interaction between the older and younger kids. The little ones look up to the older ones like big sisters and want to be like them and the older ones love the little ones like little sisters. It would be lovely to see all of that happening. It was quite funny to hear Abby say that they were going to experience a real competition, when no doubt those kids have all be competing for quite some time and at much bigger competitions. You know in Australia we don't have the notion that real ballet does not begin until age 8 or above. Most studios have the kids taking their ballet exams from around 5 years of age. Our kids do 2 ballet classes a week and take ballet exams as well as a role in the ballet production from 4 or 5. They are doing proper barre work from age 5-6.


DS did his first RAD ballet exam at 5 here in Canada.

RAD is the same no matter where you are so of course children in the US follow that syllabus as well. A 5 year old in ballet is not doing the same kind of work as an 8 or 9 year old. That's just due to being 5 not the country in which you live. My daughters were both in RAD programs at 5. That's one of them as a 4 year old in my profile pic.


We don't do RAD (although we used to). The kids do CSTD ballet. The first level exam can be done in the year the kids are 4 turning 5, and then in Primaty which can be done when they are 5 turning 6 they are doing barre work.

You completely missed the point of my post. You seem to think training children in ballet is somehow significantly different in Australia than it is in the US. My comment is that a child's age and development isn't governed by geography.
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FantabulouslyCherry

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Reply with quote  #54 
I definitely agree about Kendall. The week before, she freaked out about having to wear old-looking stage makeup. Even after Abby allowed her to take it off (which shocked me), she didn't show the proper emotion for the dance.
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emmymom

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Reply with quote  #55 
Maybe Kendall's attitude (or lack thereof) is because she's the only one on this show who realizes how completely stupid and contrived it's become! 

Maybe she's the only one who knows that they all look like ridiculous, fame-at-any-cost seeking fools at this point!
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my2miracles

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prancer
Great point way up the thread about giving legal custody of your child to Melissa! WHAT!!! Holly would be the only choice for me. And for Kendall - after watching her solo this week, my dd said " if I ever feel embarrassed or uncomfortable about really performing on stage - I will remember how much more aweful this is". - no smile, no energy, no entertainment value.


I question the term "legal custody" because that is not what you typically give someone when they are taking temporary care of your child.  Really what she's given her is authorization to get her medical care if she needs it.  She is not giving her legal custody which is a completely different legal term.
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5678StarMom

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmymom
Maybe Kendall's attitude (or lack thereof) is because she's the only one on this show who realizes how completely stupid and contrived it's become! 

Maybe she's the only one who knows that they all look like ridiculous, fame-at-any-cost seeking fools at this point!


Or she just can't handle it anymore, poor girl.

I think Holly and Nia know it's ridiculous. I think Jojo and her mom and Kalani/Kira all went into this eyes wide open. Even Melissa seems aware of the false nature of the show. Maybe Kendall does know it's contrived but her mom sure doesn't, lol! OR Jill is the best actress of them all. That's possible. Not any more healthy but possible!
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5678StarMom

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by my2miracles
Quote:
Originally Posted by prancer
Great point way up the thread about giving legal custody of your child to Melissa! WHAT!!! Holly would be the only choice for me. And for Kendall - after watching her solo this week, my dd said " if I ever feel embarrassed or uncomfortable about really performing on stage - I will remember how much more aweful this is". - no smile, no energy, no entertainment value.


I question the term "legal custody" because that is not what you typically give someone when they are taking temporary care of your child.  Really what she's given her is authorization to get her medical care if she needs it.  She is not giving her legal custody which is a completely different legal term.


They like to embellish on this show...say it ain't so [smile]
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Jacaranda

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Reply with quote  #59 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
I loved the group dance. It was great to see them so excited to do it, and it was great to see them do a new style. It was a fun dance and it came together very well. I loved Jojo's solo as well, that make up was pretty incredible and she does play the character well. I loved her attitude, she gets all the crazy parts and she just embraces them. Other kids get given weird parts that are not so pretty and they complain, but Jojo gets excited about whatever she is given and then embraces it. Like last week in the bubble, any other parent would have had a heart attack after all the panic about not having air. But Jojo and Jess took it in their stride. I was also very disappointed in Kendall's solo. That would not even place in the top 50 in her age group at our competitions. For me I think the personality on stage is a huge part of performing. I dance all through my childhood, teen years and early adulthood and in those days there was a lot less emphasis on tricks and a lot more emphasis on stage presence and using the body to make what we did look good. We didn't do 100 turns in a row but we spent many hours learning to turn the shoulders in such a way as to accentuate the head line and so on (but we still did triple and quad turns). Kendal displayed such poor personality, but the dance didn't exactly have that much skill to and up for it either. I liked the idea that the other girls were learning the solos too. The emphasis was only constantly learning. The focus on their education as a dancer rather than just learning routines for a show. I lov d the idea of bringing in the Mini's. One of my favourite things about dance studios is the beautiful interaction between the older and younger kids. The little ones look up to the older ones like big sisters and want to be like them and the older ones love the little ones like little sisters. It would be lovely to see all of that happening. It was quite funny to hear Abby say that they were going to experience a real competition, when no doubt those kids have all be competing for quite some time and at much bigger competitions. You know in Australia we don't have the notion that real ballet does not begin until age 8 or above. Most studios have the kids taking their ballet exams from around 5 years of age. Our kids do 2 ballet classes a week and take ballet exams as well as a role in the ballet production from 4 or 5. They are doing proper barre work from age 5-6.


DS did his first RAD ballet exam at 5 here in Canada.

RAD is the same no matter where you are so of course children in the US follow that syllabus as well. A 5 year old in ballet is not doing the same kind of work as an 8 or 9 year old. That's just due to being 5 not the country in which you live. My daughters were both in RAD programs at 5. That's one of them as a 4 year old in my profile pic.


We don't do RAD (although we used to). The kids do CSTD ballet. The first level exam can be done in the year the kids are 4 turning 5, and then in Primaty which can be done when they are 5 turning 6 they are doing barre work.

You completely missed the point of my post. You seem to think training children in ballet is somehow significantly different in Australia than it is in the US. My comment is that a child's age and development isn't governed by geography.


Not nessesarily. What becomes the norm in one area will be different in another. In many Eastern European studios kids will start dancing in pointe on at 8 years of age and this will be considered normal. In western countries this would be very rare and unacceptable. But if in many of those European countries they waited until 12 to start pointe the pressure from the georgraphical area would mean that the studio would be seen as less serious.

In the U.S. A much smaller percentage of dance studios do exams. Often you would be able to chose between an exam or a non exam studio. In my area it would be very rare to find a studio that does not do exams. Not just for ballet, our students will do yearly exams for ballet, jazz, tap, theatrical, contemporary and so on. While of course doing exams are optional they are a big focus of the class so a student who decided not to do them would be like one opting out of recital.

The push for more serious ballet will also vary depending on the Syllabus. In recent years the RAD has slightly increased the minimum age for their exams and made the younger exams more child friendly. But a lot of our syllabi have not. My point about the kids doing CSTD is that barre work is introduced younger than it is in RAD, there is not the same notion of keeping it as play type ballet until an older age.

Another notion that is interesting is that I have read in many posts is the horror of pointe work being introduced with low hours of ballet. In my area this is normal, most theatrical studios don't offer a high number of ballet hours and it is commonplace to be doing pointe work on 2 hours a week of ballet.
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beachgirl

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5678StarMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by my2miracles
Quote:
Originally Posted by prancer
Great point way up the thread about giving legal custody of your child to Melissa! WHAT!!! Holly would be the only choice for me. And for Kendall - after watching her solo this week, my dd said " if I ever feel embarrassed or uncomfortable about really performing on stage - I will remember how much more aweful this is". - no smile, no energy, no entertainment value.


I question the term "legal custody" because that is not what you typically give someone when they are taking temporary care of your child.  Really what she's given her is authorization to get her medical care if she needs it.  She is not giving her legal custody which is a completely different legal term.
They like to embellish on this show...say it ain't so [smile]


Hahaha yes! She probably has Power of Attorney and not Legal Custody.
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Mom2Girls

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by tappinmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
I loved the group dance. It was great to see them so excited to do it, and it was great to see them do a new style. It was a fun dance and it came together very well. I loved Jojo's solo as well, that make up was pretty incredible and she does play the character well. I loved her attitude, she gets all the crazy parts and she just embraces them. Other kids get given weird parts that are not so pretty and they complain, but Jojo gets excited about whatever she is given and then embraces it. Like last week in the bubble, any other parent would have had a heart attack after all the panic about not having air. But Jojo and Jess took it in their stride. I was also very disappointed in Kendall's solo. That would not even place in the top 50 in her age group at our competitions. For me I think the personality on stage is a huge part of performing. I dance all through my childhood, teen years and early adulthood and in those days there was a lot less emphasis on tricks and a lot more emphasis on stage presence and using the body to make what we did look good. We didn't do 100 turns in a row but we spent many hours learning to turn the shoulders in such a way as to accentuate the head line and so on (but we still did triple and quad turns). Kendal displayed such poor personality, but the dance didn't exactly have that much skill to and up for it either. I liked the idea that the other girls were learning the solos too. The emphasis was only constantly learning. The focus on their education as a dancer rather than just learning routines for a show. I lov d the idea of bringing in the Mini's. One of my favourite things about dance studios is the beautiful interaction between the older and younger kids. The little ones look up to the older ones like big sisters and want to be like them and the older ones love the little ones like little sisters. It would be lovely to see all of that happening. It was quite funny to hear Abby say that they were going to experience a real competition, when no doubt those kids have all be competing for quite some time and at much bigger competitions. You know in Australia we don't have the notion that real ballet does not begin until age 8 or above. Most studios have the kids taking their ballet exams from around 5 years of age. Our kids do 2 ballet classes a week and take ballet exams as well as a role in the ballet production from 4 or 5. They are doing proper barre work from age 5-6.


DS did his first RAD ballet exam at 5 here in Canada.

RAD is the same no matter where you are so of course children in the US follow that syllabus as well. A 5 year old in ballet is not doing the same kind of work as an 8 or 9 year old. That's just due to being 5 not the country in which you live. My daughters were both in RAD programs at 5. That's one of them as a 4 year old in my profile pic.


We don't do RAD (although we used to). The kids do CSTD ballet. The first level exam can be done in the year the kids are 4 turning 5, and then in Primaty which can be done when they are 5 turning 6 they are doing barre work.

You completely missed the point of my post. You seem to think training children in ballet is somehow significantly different in Australia than it is in the US. My comment is that a child's age and development isn't governed by geography.


Not nessesarily. What becomes the norm in one area will be different in another. In many Eastern European studios kids will start dancing in pointe on at 8 years of age and this will be considered normal. In western countries this would be very rare and unacceptable. But if in many of those European countries they waited until 12 to start pointe the pressure from the georgraphical area would mean that the studio would be seen as less serious.

In the U.S. A much smaller percentage of dance studios do exams. Often you would be able to chose between an exam or a non exam studio. In my area it would be very rare to find a studio that does not do exams. Not just for ballet, our students will do yearly exams for ballet, jazz, tap, theatrical, contemporary and so on. While of course doing exams are optional they are a big focus of the class so a student who decided not to do them would be like one opting out of recital.

The push for more serious ballet will also vary depending on the Syllabus. In recent years the RAD has slightly increased the minimum age for their exams and made the younger exams more child friendly. But a lot of our syllabi have not. My point about the kids doing CSTD is that barre work is introduced younger than it is in RAD, there is not the same notion of keeping it as play type ballet until an older age.

Another notion that is interesting is that I have read in many posts is the horror of pointe work being introduced with low hours of ballet. In my area this is normal, most theatrical studios don't offer a high number of ballet hours and it is commonplace to be doing pointe work on 2 hours a week of ballet.


You're discussing it from a cultural perspective, but from a developmental perspective, there isn't going to be a big difference in terms of physical/emotional/psychological development and readiness across the world. Also, just because your students regularly do pointe work with only two hours a week of ballet does not mean that what they are doing is the same quality as the pointe work students with more ballet are doing... There are studios here where kids do pointe with only 2 hours a week of ballet. They are not highly regarded.
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heidi459

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Reply with quote  #62 
Jacaranda... I also think that perhaps you misunderstand when many of us talk about 'real' ballet training not starting until the age of 8 or so.  It's not that our kids do nothing but skip around the room before 8.  It's not that they don't do exercises at the barre before 8.  Or simple center work before 8. They typically do do all that.  It's just that studios have age appropriate expectations & prior to 8 the focus is not on "serious" training.    

And fwiw:  Out of curiosity I googled and came upon The Australian Ballet School in Melbourne which describes itself as the primary training facility for the Australian Ballet.  And according to their website?  It would appear that they do not appear to start their "serious" training until the age of 8 either.
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Jacaranda

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Reply with quote  #63 
Mom2girls, I know there are many studios that teach pointe on 2 hours a week over there too. But the fact that they are not highly regarded is the difference. In my area those studios that teach pointe on 2 hours a week are highly regarded. This is more common that not. A lot more studios will do it on less hours rather than more.

Finding a studio that offers teens 4 or 5 hours of ballet is much harder to come by.
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Jacaranda

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Reply with quote  #64 
Heidi459, I do hear what you are all saying. I am not saying that our ballet is more or less serious with little ones. I think my point was misunderstood too, I am talking about the way ballet is "sold" here. I have never heard a teacher say that ballet is not really ballet until age 8. In fact quite the opposite, many say the ages from 4-7 are when the kids need to focus more seriously on their ballet to lay the foundations for good posture and so on.

Our 6 years olds do almost the same amount of ballet each week as our seniors.
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Lexiluwho

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacaranda
Heidi459, I do hear what you are all saying. I am not saying that our ballet is more or less serious with little ones. I think my point was misunderstood too, I am talking about the way ballet is "sold" here. I have never heard a teacher say that ballet is not really ballet until age 8. In fact quite the opposite, many say the ages from 4-7 are when the kids need to focus more seriously on their ballet to lay the foundations for good posture and so on.

Our 6 years olds do almost the same amount of ballet each week as our seniors.
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mackiecat

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Reply with quote  #66 
We were at Kar yesterday and Ava was competing. That girl has to be 6 feet tall. The weird part is she was in the Intermediaore division. She did two solos which were technically good but there is something "off" with her overall look. Anyways she ended up the runner up and an amazing musical theatre number one. I'm not sure why she was in Intermediate level though?
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Suzit42

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Reply with quote  #67 
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Originally Posted by mackiecat
We were at Kar yesterday and Ava was competing. That girl has to be 6 feet tall. The weird part is she was in the Intermediaore division. She did two solos which were technically good but there is something "off" with her overall look. Anyways she ended up the runner up and an amazing musical theatre number one. I'm not sure why she was in Intermediate level though


According to their website

INTERMEDIATE LEVEL - Dancers with 4 to 7 years of competition experience. If a dancer has 7 or more years of competition experience and is age 15 and above, then the ELITE LEVEL should be considered. Overall High Scores will be presented in all 3 Age Groups (9-11, 12-14 and 15-19) in the Solo, Duet/Trio, Small Group, Large Group, and Line categories.

We have seen her comps and a convention last season. She was considered a "junior" which was up to 12 at the convention. She won "second place" or whatever they call it at the convention scholarship ceremony. So I'm guessing she is 13 now. If she competed starting at six years old, then this would be her seventh year. I guess technically, it would be correct? Skill level, in no way is Ava intermediate. She is a beautiful dancer. She is very tall and thin. But so is her mom. I too thought something was off with her dancing. But I chalked it up to being a twelve year old who is under tremendous pressure and most likely just coming out of a growth spurt.
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Ktyyyyyyy

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Reply with quote  #68 
KAR's levels are different than other competitions. They actually have five levels. Intermediate is the 4th highest level and would be the appropriate level for Ava if she is 13. If she competed in the highest level, elite, she would likely have almost no competition since the rules state dancers in that category should be at least 14 years old. In my experience, there are very few teens in the elite category.
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melissa745

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Reply with quote  #69 
Not only are KAR levels different, they are determined by a computer and a difficult to change if you don't like where they put you.

If she's 13, then intermediate is likely where she'd end up.
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jwsqrdplus2

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Reply with quote  #70 
While I agree that KAR's levels are very different, it is absolutely not unheard of for 13-year-olds to be in Elite, and to actually have competition!  Ash competed Elite at KAR at 13, and did not make the Top 5 Elite teen solo (do not remember what place she got).  Her trio (3 13-yr-olds) even got 1st overall Elite teen trio that year.  At age 13, she was IN her 7th year of comp, so she could have easily been placed in Intermediate by the rules, but our studio opted to place her and her trio mates in Elite.
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Suzit42

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Reply with quote  #71 
We competed at the Michigan KAR this same weekend last year. This year, we will be at the Michigan KAR in March. I am curious to know who competed this weekend and who we will see in March. The results page had Ava's solo as second place. The name of her solo was "Strange Fruit". I have no idea what version of the song it was. I do know that it's a serious, serious song. Nothing to mess with unless you have a real understanding of it. In my case, I would not okay my 13 year old to dance to this song. She is a super smart kid but I do not think she would have had the emotional maturity to give it what it truly deserves. I guess it would be on my "no dance list" lol
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mackiecat

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Reply with quote  #72 
The girl that won did the most amazing musical theatre number that was to "if I only had a brain" it was unbelievably amazing.
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Suzit42

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mackiecat
The girl that won did the most amazing musical theatre number that was to "if I only had a brain" it was unbelievably amazing.


I wish I could see that! It's my fav song from the Wizard of Oz. DD sang it for an audition for a MT camp. Not my pick. Her vocal coach picked it and I was giddy. DD passed the audition. It's on my list of songs I wish DD would dance to.
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chicacheedancemom

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Reply with quote  #74 
My heart breaks for Kendal..it's very apparent she doesn't want to dance anymore, but her mom is living vicariously through her. Jill is a hot mess. Kendal has said time and time again she doesn't want to do this anymore...but Jill cannot give up her "fame"...its disgusting. 
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ButterX3

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Reply with quote  #75 
I wonder if Ava has a really tall dad, her mom seems tall and thin too. Jeanette totally reminds me of Kate Gosselin.

These girls have got to be mortified by how thier mother's are portrayed in the show. But I am assuming the producer's want Jill to act like a lunatic. Last season it was Holly, now she seems to have backed down. JoJo's mom was coming off as pretty normal and level headed, and then all the sudden she is instigating stuff. They all have their moments for sure.
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