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burghmom

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Reply with quote  #1 
Is anyone else frustrated with the different rules at competitions?  This one, the age is calculated by Jan 1st for groups, but date of comp for solos.  This one, if one person is in the competitive level then all of their dances are at the competitive level.  Another, the level is calculated by 51% of the students in small and large groups but not duos and trios.  And don't even get me started on awards. 

Can we just get some consistency please?
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Jacaranda

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Reply with quote  #2 
That does make it difficult. All our competitions have the same rules. They all have the same 6 age divisions for groups and the rule is that all dancers must be that age or younger on the first of January.

The teachers out together their groups based on these rules, it would be very hard if they were constantly changing.
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Phx115

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Reply with quote  #3 
Edited b/c the comp was Rainbow, not KAR - (to-may-to/to-mah-to) 😜

Personally, I think of some of this nonsense with rules - especially the one that if one dancer in a group is advanced, then the entire group must be placed in the advanced level - is why I've never seen so much leveling down as I have this year. In the mini and junior levels, there are so few entries in the advanced levels (groups or solos), but intermediate is filled with routines that used to be - and clearly are - advanced. A few studios are catching on because I watched the only 8 and under solo in the Elite category at Rainbow place 1st, obviously. Bless her heart, but it wasn't exactly an Elite-level routine.

I think the most egregious display I've seen this year was at Rainbow. A newer studio entered several large groups in the Starz of Tomorrow - 8 and under level. These routines had 12 yr olds whipping out a la secondes and fouettés mixed with 5 yr olds running amongst the older dancers. I suppose technically they weren't breaking the age "rules," but I don't consider those types of turns beginner-level skills. I guess the studio is looking to decorate its studio with awards.

I know of at least two studios that select the comps they will attend each year based on the age rules so that the studio favorites/stars can stay in the younger age levels as long as possible.

The whole competition scene, in my opinion, is becoming laughable.
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rubydancemom

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Reply with quote  #4 
I agree with the inconsistencies. My DD just competed a dance in the 9-10 category because 2 girls are still 10 (for 2 more months) and one is 9, so, the "drop the decimal" put them in 9-10, when 75% of the group is 11-12. They looked so much older than the other groups. I felt bad. Then, we had girls compete all their groups in intermediate, but their solo in novice? Also, we had dances score better at our 2nd comp, earning golds and elite golds, when they got platinums at a previous comp with lower scores. None of it is consistent, and yes, it is getting laughable.
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1tinydancer

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Reply with quote  #5 
Ahhhh. The rules. I love reading the rules. Here comes my rant because I'm in a ranting kind of mood.
One of my favorite rules is the no photography/video allowed, that this rule is in effect to protect the choreography of the teacher and then the comp uploads pics and video all over their social media.
Another one is not posting your rates. WE, THE PARENTS, are paying you, the competition. The money just goes through the studio. Why, why, why are you catering to the SO and not the people who are actually supplying you with your paycheck??? POST THE RATES!!!!
Awards. I don't want a lecture. You, the comp, should know which dance placed. Don't drag it out. Give the special awards, give the adjudication, give the top 3/5/10 whatever, and let's move on.
Schedules. Get the schedules out sooner. If you have a registration cut off date of a month before a comp then you should have a schedule no less than a week later. Again, the parents are the ones that are paying you and we also have lives. Also, do not schedule during school hours and if you do? I better get my money back because I'm not taking my kid out of school for your dance comp.
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cynmckee

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Reply with quote  #6 
Eh, as long as the inconsistency is consistent within a particular comp (different studios all have the same rules) then it is not unfair.  I think at a particular point, when you do comps, you realize just how imprecise comps are...all of them.  Different judges on different days will give different results.  Sometimes your group looks old, sometimes they look young.  You just can't put  all your heart and trust into results...because it is all just so subjective.  So I guess I'm saying, just go with the flow and look at every comp as another performance opportunity.  Don't obsess about the rules, just enjoy the show.
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Mamala

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Reply with quote  #7 
yes it's annoying. It would be much simpler if the rules were the same across the board.
It's so confusing.
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Phx115

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee
Eh, as long as the inconsistency is consistent within a particular comp (different studios all have the same rules) then it is not unfair.  I think at a particular point, when you do comps, you realize just how imprecise comps are...all of them.  Different judges on different days will give different results.  Sometimes your group looks old, sometimes they look young.  You just can't put  all your heart and trust into results...because it is all just so subjective.  So I guess I'm saying, just go with the flow and look at every comp as another performance opportunity.  Don't obsess about the rules, just enjoy the show.


True. Although it is one EXPENSIVE show! LOL!
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prancer

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Reply with quote  #9 
I am so with cynmckee. If you have watched enough dance comps, most competitive dance results don't mean enough to worry about.

As an example of how most things don't matter: We had a petite group that did well all season, but needed a replacement dancer because someone couldn't travel to nationals, and those national rules required recalculating based on everyone's current age (even though the sub would have been a petite using the January 1 rule), so the dance went as an insanely young junior group. This dance won first at nationals in the older age group anyway, but the nationals we attended was less competitive than the the average regional comps we had attended all year, so nationals was easier than regionals. Also our group was dancing at the intermediate level, so in reality whole slew of advanced dances were supposed to be better and being the best of the middle isn't really being the best. And the sub was considered an advanced dancer at our studio, but allowed in by the competition because of their proportion rule, but in reality she wasn't as good as some of the best "intermediate" dancers in that group.

Hopefully the dancers are improving and having fun. That's what matters.
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tappinmom

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Reply with quote  #10 
From the sounds of it our comp rules are much more consistent.

Novice is only for dancers who have either never competed before or never competed in a s/d/t.

Pre comp and comp and stated very clearly with hours training as the criteria.

Ages are always January 1st.

75% of any group must fall within the level the group is entered.

I like the consistency.
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jule425

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Reply with quote  #11 
Timely conversation. Our problem is the opposite, a competition moved one of our dances from elite to intermediate. We are trying to get it moved back up. The break down of the group is 6 elite soloists, 6 intermediate and 2 not doing solos. You don't have to assign a level to the non soloists. Since 6 are intermediate, they moved us down. At our last competition this dance scored the highest adjudication, and 3rd overall in the advanced level. We are going to look shady at intermediate, but it won't be our fault. It was entered at elite, but they moved it. I'm hoping our competition director can get them to move it back up. We also average 11.88, so we are at the top of the age range. Of the six elite soloists, four are in the teen category.
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jwsqrdplus2

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jule425
Timely conversation. Our problem is the opposite, a competition moved one of our dances from elite to intermediate. We are trying to get it moved back up. The break down of the group is 6 elite soloists, 6 intermediate and 2 not doing solos. You don't have to assign a level to the non soloists. Since 6 are intermediate, they moved us down. At our last competition this dance scored the highest adjudication, and 3rd overall in the advanced level. We are going to look shady at intermediate, but it won't be our fault. It was entered at elite, but they moved it. I'm hoping our competition director can get them to move it back up. We also average 11.88, so we are at the top of the age range. Of the six elite soloists, four are in the teen category.


What comp??  The reason I ask is if you are talking KAR, then intermediate is "elite" for the average age you describe.  For KAR, there is not even an Elite option for any group/dancer under age 12.
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jule425

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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwsqrdplus2


What comp??  The reason I ask is if you are talking KAR, then intermediate is "elite" for the average age you describe.  For KAR, there is not even an Elite option for any group/dancer under age 12.


The dance came in 3rd at KAR in Intermediate. It's a different one with 3 levels. No reason for the dance to be intermediate (middle level). The two girls not doing solos did ones last year at advanced. Their parents cut back this year to save $$.

I had said advanced since Intermediate is elite at KAR for 11 and under. Not everyone knows about their crazy levels. lol
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Suzit42

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1tinydancer
Ahhhh. The rules. I love reading the rules. Here comes my rant because I'm in a ranting kind of mood.
One of my favorite rules is the no photography/video allowed, that this rule is in effect to protect the choreography of the teacher and then the comp uploads pics and video all over their social media.


Schedules. Get the schedules out sooner. If you have a registration cut off date of a month before a comp then you should have a schedule no less than a week later. Again, the parents are the ones that are paying you and we also have lives. .


I generally don't have an issue with the no photography/video allowed. I am terrible at both and am fine leaving it to the pros. But the problem is, you may or may not get pros. This past weekend, the pictures were just awful. The lighting made the dancers look ghostly white or jersey orange. Last month, the photographer was closer to one side of the stage. So that meant lots and lots of crotch shots. Jeez, I hate this bodysuit trend.

Don't get me started on schedules. If you have been sold out for three weeks and the comp isn't for another six weeks, there is no reason that I shouldn't have a schedule in the next two weeks. And don't give me that, we email it and post it on our app the day before the competition starts. Yes, I am looking at you KAR.
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elastigal

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Reply with quote  #15 
We're in Canada so it's a little different than the US and I don't have too many issues with our comps. I hate, hate, hate the 8 am starts on a Friday morning then having to do an 8 am start again on the Saturday (our first team comp this year is like that). I also hate that some comps don't do overalls until the very end - two comps we are going to this year do that, and one of them is over an hour away. Joy. I like the round robin format of some of ours with things mixed up - you don't have to sit through 2 hours of just solos or just groups, etc. but all levels of solos, duets, groups are mixed up and so are the levels; and they mostly do the 12 and under before 3 pm with 13+ going into the evening though awards do run as late at 11 pm. I like that we get our schedules early - I already have the schedules for 2 of the 4 full team comps we are competing at, one for 2 weeks from now and the other for the end of April.
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momcrew

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Reply with quote  #16 
Meh. It's still three random judges on any given day regardless what the rules are. 
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cynmckee

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Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jule425


The dance came in 3rd at KAR in Intermediate. It's a different one with 3 levels. No reason for the dance to be intermediate (middle level). The two girls not doing solos did ones last year at advanced. Their parents cut back this year to save $$.

I had said advanced since Intermediate is elite at KAR for 11 and under. Not everyone knows about their crazy levels. lol


Kar is it's own separate monster.  We did Kar last year and they set up their levels based on age.  You can't be in the advanced (whatever it's called) level and be younger then a specific age (whatever that age is.)  Our groups were placed in intermediate and I was offended.  Kind of felt it was cheating...but our studio didn't place them there...Kar did...solely based on the age of the kids.  Intermediate doesn't mean at Kar what it does at other comps.  And we competed against all of the other good studios that were in the same boat.

So honestly...I say again, unless you are competing independent....quit reading the rules.  Your SO is on it and as long as they are consistent within a competition, it's all fine.  It's all just a show, anyway.  Sometimes long and exhausting...but still a show.
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ballerinamom13

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Reply with quote  #18 
I will probably get a bunch of thumbs down for this (omg - my feelers will be so hurt... [smile]), but as an old mom with a dd who has been in both the competition world and the professional ballet world, honestly - none of it matters.

Yes, in the moment it does matter to the kids, sometimes. I think parents care more though. Yes, it's extremely expensive.  Yes, it seems unfair sometimes and it's definitely inconsistent, but in the big picture, plastic means nothing in the real world.  So like cynmckee wrote, try to go with the flow, but most importantly, emphasize to your kids that they should work hard and smart and do their absolute best every single time they dance.  That is what really matters.
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rubydancemom

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Reply with quote  #19 
I actually really like your comment, ballerinamom13. I am seeing more and more kids at our studio getting caught up on "I scored better than X." And, "I got the best score in the studio." Really?!?! That's not what this is all about, and I am really sad that these comments are beginning to reflect a shift of our team. I am hearing girls tear apart someone who "only got a Gold, and so shouldn't be in my class." These comments are sad to me, and I'm hearing them, though I barely spend any time in the studio. I would hate to be one of the girls they are directed towards. DD did really well this past weekend, but I don't think any of her performances improved by the amount of points her scores jumped up. It just tells me that this competition had different standards and were looking at different things than the last one. The scores don't really mean much, but I love to hear judges comments and suggestions for improvement. I love to see my DD improving. I don't like to hear that the girls are putting so much value on the scores, though. Maybe this is why we keep losing so many girls from team.
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beachgirl

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubydancemom
I actually really like your comment, ballerinamom13. I am seeing more and more kids at our studio getting caught up on "I scored better than X." And, "I got the best score in the studio." Really?!?! That's not what this is all about, and I am really sad that these comments are beginning to reflect a shift of our team. I am hearing girls tear apart someone who "only got a Gold, and so shouldn't be in my class." These comments are sad to me, and I'm hearing them, though I barely spend any time in the studio. I would hate to be one of the girls they are directed towards. DD did really well this past weekend, but I don't think any of her performances improved by the amount of points her scores jumped up. It just tells me that this competition had different standards and were looking at different things than the last one. The scores don't really mean much, but I love to hear judges comments and suggestions for improvement. I love to see my DD improving. I don't like to hear that the girls are putting so much value on the scores, though. Maybe this is why we keep losing so many girls from team.


I would personally like awards to only be top 10 (although I prefer top 3) and some special judge's awards ..... and not call out all the adjudications (unless you only give a few top ones - then just call those out....like Jump's 'You Rocked Jump.'). Half the time 90% of the adjudicated award is the same and then you are left with less than 10% getting lower and I think that's not good for a dancer's self esteem. Plus it makes awards sooooo long! 
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prancer

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Reply with quote  #21 
Brilliant beachgirl!  They could get their adjudications online or with their score sheets and save so much time at awards.  Plus, awards would be more interesting because the judges would not have already tipped their hand.  If there is some spread in the adjudications, I often know that a dance will place in the top 5 because there were only 4 super duper double diamond platinums awarded, and that dance got one, so it will place high.
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sandj

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Reply with quote  #22 
I think if you consider all that's going on in the world, and the hardships that many people face on a daily basis, none of this matters! Let the kids just enjoy the privilege of dancing with their friends, traveling to fun competitions and doing what they love. In the end, that's what matters. Let it be. 😃
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kmpmom

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Reply with quote  #23 
Agreeing with the other Canadian posters that we have more consistency in rules comp to comp up here, and I'm grateful for that.  For the most part our events run on time, have a good atmosphere, and are held in good venues.  As a result, my pet peeves are few, but they are mighty.

Dear competition director.  If my 16 year old was the last dancer on Friday at 10:55pm, please do not put her duet at 8:30 the next morning.  Thank you.

Dear competition director.  Please make sure you use computers (or at least calculators and a pen!) to figure out your overalls before you announce them.  DD missed out on a very special award (for her) at our first comp because they called the awards out wrong.  We only learned of it when the official score sheets arrived.  Yeah, I know, I'm gonna throw out that chunk of medal a few years from now, but in this moment in time, it meant the world to DD and you took that moment (and the hardware) from her.

Otherwise, good job!  And see you this weekend!  
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Dancingemu

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynmckee
Eh, as long as the inconsistency is consistent within a particular comp (different studios all have the same rules) then it is not unfair.  I think at a particular point, when you do comps, you realize just how imprecise comps are...all of them.  Different judges on different days will give different results.  Sometimes your group looks old, sometimes they look young.  You just can't put  all your heart and trust into results...because it is all just so subjective.  So I guess I'm saying, just go with the flow and look at every comp as another performance opportunity.  Don't obsess about the rules, just enjoy the show.

This! Every competition is a different company that is allowed their own set of rules just like each studio having their own requirements for joining the competition team.
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